It would not seem unreasonable that a qualification for participating in the candidates tournament would be agreeing, if one won the tournament, to compete for the world championship.
Dennis, I think this event is important in its own right, and with a very interesting and not too common knockout format. I am not sure how many times Carlsen has participated in it, but it is an event he has never won. The qualification for the candidates is surely an important aspect, but not the only one.
Right: it's also important for *Magnus Carlsen*, but how is that relevant? The point of the event is to select qualifiers for the Candidates, not to allow Carlsen to complete his bucket list. If the latter is in conflict with the purpose of the tournament - and it is, if Carlsen has no intention of continuing in the World Championship cycle - then unless FIDE is now Carlsen's fiefdom it's Carlsen's dream, not that of legitimate aspirants, that should be rejected.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that qualifying for the candidates is one, but not the only purpose of the tournament. Wanting to win it could be any player's (including Magnus') goal.
I agree with ravi that the World Cup is also a "standalone event". Put it that way: the World Cup winner "gets a place in chess history" because he won the World Cup, not because he then played the candidates (and regardless of his candidates result). It's still a small group: Anand twice (if we include early events that weren't part of the world championship cycle), Aronian, Kamsky, Gelfand, Svidler, Kramnik, Karjakin, Aronian again, Radjabov and Duda.
For Carlsen, Fide can't exclude him anyway - short of banning him from this cycle (for giving up his title in the previous one) or altogether (for his campaign against Niemann). It can't be completely ruled out that he "wants to play the candidates", he himself talked about a "1% chance".
Of course he would, if needed, have a "99+% chance" for the rating spot, but per regulations it would need to be validated by playing at least 4 classical events of the FIDE Circuit (or - World Cup - with a classical component). He so far played Tata Steel and Norway Chess, declined his Grand Chess Tour invitation (only accepting rapid/blitz wildcards) and will play Qatar Masters. If he had been excluded from the World Cup, I could even imagine a scenario where he then claims his candidates rating spot just to cause mayhem if FIDE is principled in applying regulations. And he has a (former?) coach who is very active on Twitter, a large fanbase and at least some control over major chess media.
Nepomniachtchi might be another story, but maybe the World Cup trophy would matter even more for him than for Carlsen. Arguably, World Cup winner is more prestigious than any supertournament victory (candidates twice included), and only classical world champion can top it.
You can say it's a "standalone event", but it's obviously not. The reason it exists is to give spots to the Candidates. If they wanted to make it a genuinely "standalone event" they could do so by eliminating the qualification component. (See how easy this is, when one isn't motivated to justify Carlsen's/Nepo's/Ding's participation?)
As for Carlsen's participation, two thoughts. First, my feeling was that he shouldn't play, as a voluntary matter, if he has no intention of participating in the Candidates. But ok, suppose there's a "1% chance" he'll do it. In that case, here's a second thought: anyone who participates signs a form that says that if they finish in the top three spots, they will play in the Candidates or else forfeit their winnings from the event (barring some sort of emergency or tragedy). Problem solved.
Carlsen does whatever he wants, he doesn't even (always) listen to people close to him. Being deprived of 110,000$ prize money for first place (80,000 for second, 60,000 for third place) would hurt others, not really him. If this rule had existed in the past, we could have argued whether Radjabov's reason for pulling out of the candidates was valid - while "emergency and/or tragedy" may have been the case.
BTW Carlsen and Nepomniachtchi, on opposite ends of the upper half of the bracket, would meet in the semifinal. Strong US players might benefit from this being the case as they are all in the lower half of the pairing bracket (Nakamura, Caruana, So, Dominguez, let's also include Shankland), so reaching the semifinal would (most likely in the case of Carlsen) already mean a candidates spot. They mainly have to deal with each other - Caruana (or, if he loses, So) also with Duda, Nakamura also with Radjabov or Vachier-Lagrave or maybe Erigaisi.
Carlsen could eliminate Abdusattorov, then Mamedyarov or Gukesh. Nepo could hurt or help mainly Giri or Dubov or Grischuk.
As for "obfuscation", I hope you're being tongue in cheek. If my views about Carlsen's and Nepo's participation were unclear I may need to have ChatGPT write my posts.
It would not seem unreasonable that a qualification for participating in the candidates tournament would be agreeing, if one won the tournament, to compete for the world championship.
Dennis, I think this event is important in its own right, and with a very interesting and not too common knockout format. I am not sure how many times Carlsen has participated in it, but it is an event he has never won. The qualification for the candidates is surely an important aspect, but not the only one.
Right: it's also important for *Magnus Carlsen*, but how is that relevant? The point of the event is to select qualifiers for the Candidates, not to allow Carlsen to complete his bucket list. If the latter is in conflict with the purpose of the tournament - and it is, if Carlsen has no intention of continuing in the World Championship cycle - then unless FIDE is now Carlsen's fiefdom it's Carlsen's dream, not that of legitimate aspirants, that should be rejected.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that qualifying for the candidates is one, but not the only purpose of the tournament. Wanting to win it could be any player's (including Magnus') goal.
I agree with ravi that the World Cup is also a "standalone event". Put it that way: the World Cup winner "gets a place in chess history" because he won the World Cup, not because he then played the candidates (and regardless of his candidates result). It's still a small group: Anand twice (if we include early events that weren't part of the world championship cycle), Aronian, Kamsky, Gelfand, Svidler, Kramnik, Karjakin, Aronian again, Radjabov and Duda.
For Carlsen, Fide can't exclude him anyway - short of banning him from this cycle (for giving up his title in the previous one) or altogether (for his campaign against Niemann). It can't be completely ruled out that he "wants to play the candidates", he himself talked about a "1% chance".
Of course he would, if needed, have a "99+% chance" for the rating spot, but per regulations it would need to be validated by playing at least 4 classical events of the FIDE Circuit (or - World Cup - with a classical component). He so far played Tata Steel and Norway Chess, declined his Grand Chess Tour invitation (only accepting rapid/blitz wildcards) and will play Qatar Masters. If he had been excluded from the World Cup, I could even imagine a scenario where he then claims his candidates rating spot just to cause mayhem if FIDE is principled in applying regulations. And he has a (former?) coach who is very active on Twitter, a large fanbase and at least some control over major chess media.
Nepomniachtchi might be another story, but maybe the World Cup trophy would matter even more for him than for Carlsen. Arguably, World Cup winner is more prestigious than any supertournament victory (candidates twice included), and only classical world champion can top it.
You can say it's a "standalone event", but it's obviously not. The reason it exists is to give spots to the Candidates. If they wanted to make it a genuinely "standalone event" they could do so by eliminating the qualification component. (See how easy this is, when one isn't motivated to justify Carlsen's/Nepo's/Ding's participation?)
As for Carlsen's participation, two thoughts. First, my feeling was that he shouldn't play, as a voluntary matter, if he has no intention of participating in the Candidates. But ok, suppose there's a "1% chance" he'll do it. In that case, here's a second thought: anyone who participates signs a form that says that if they finish in the top three spots, they will play in the Candidates or else forfeit their winnings from the event (barring some sort of emergency or tragedy). Problem solved.
Carlsen does whatever he wants, he doesn't even (always) listen to people close to him. Being deprived of 110,000$ prize money for first place (80,000 for second, 60,000 for third place) would hurt others, not really him. If this rule had existed in the past, we could have argued whether Radjabov's reason for pulling out of the candidates was valid - while "emergency and/or tragedy" may have been the case.
BTW Carlsen and Nepomniachtchi, on opposite ends of the upper half of the bracket, would meet in the semifinal. Strong US players might benefit from this being the case as they are all in the lower half of the pairing bracket (Nakamura, Caruana, So, Dominguez, let's also include Shankland), so reaching the semifinal would (most likely in the case of Carlsen) already mean a candidates spot. They mainly have to deal with each other - Caruana (or, if he loses, So) also with Duda, Nakamura also with Radjabov or Vachier-Lagrave or maybe Erigaisi.
Carlsen could eliminate Abdusattorov, then Mamedyarov or Gukesh. Nepo could hurt or help mainly Giri or Dubov or Grischuk.
Thanks for the obfuscation, Dennis. I was beginning to wonder if you were Ok in regards to your
limited posts lately.
Yes, I'm back.
As for "obfuscation", I hope you're being tongue in cheek. If my views about Carlsen's and Nepo's participation were unclear I may need to have ChatGPT write my posts.